Catch-22 situation

by **Aishwarya** » Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:45 pm

Strictly speaking, to be caught in a Catch-22 situation is more complicated than havng to choose betwen two evils. It is more like having no choice at all, since the only apparent way out of the situation is prevented or cancelled by some other element in the situation. An all too familiar example is the predicamant facing a young job-hunter; you cannot get a job unless you have relevant work experience, and you cannot acquire relevant work experiance unless you get a job! This phrase comes from the novel Catch-22 by the American writer Joseph Heller, published in 1961. The catch here is that the only way to get out of flying on military bombing raids is to be declared insane, but to apply for exemption from such dangerous missions is obviously a very sensible thing to do and therefore a clear proof of one\'s sanity. \"Orr would be too crazy to fly more missions\", the book explains at one point, \"and sane if he didn\'t, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn\'t have to; but if he didn\'t want to he was sane and had to\". SUCH MAD LOGIC IS USED THROUGH OUT THE BOOK TO SATIRISE WAR AND MILITARY THINKING. 

If it were not for an accident of publishing history, we might today tend to talk of a catch-18 situation rather than a catch-22 situation. Joseph Heller originally called the paradox catch-18 and intended to call the book the same, but the bestselling Mila-18, a novel by Leon Uris, was published slightly earlier in 1961, and Heller and his publishers decided at the last minute to change Catch-18 to Catch-22 to avoid any confusion. 

People... tell me, did you come across such a wierd situation any time?

by **Srinu** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 12:12 am

i am sure most gults would identify more with \"mundu nuyya, venaka goyya\"... the best catch-22 scenario i can think of is marriage.

by **Aishwarya** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 12:19 am

Srinu, please read the first line again... I don\'t think you quite understood what I wanted to say...

by **lucifer-in-disguise** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:10 am

the people who have something meaningful n productive to do always pass through such situations, but the way they come out of such a phase is more worth to discuss...

by **Aishwarya** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:52 am

LID, buddy, not all people who do productive work get into such situations... Take for instance me. Only recently I was in a Catch-22 situation... Well, I made a resolution of not making any resolutions, but I broke my resolution by making a resolution. Therefore I resolved not to make any resolutions and not to break any resolutions!!Oops, there I go again. And I am not a busy person at all... I am generally bekaar and berozgaar!

by **laskar_sikandrabadi** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:11 am

Smarty point for anyone who tells the difference between Catch-22 and Hobson\'s Choice

by **Srinu** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 8:49 pm

hmm, u r right, aish... so what would that be in telugu...
anyways, a typical catch-22 that men face is with girls

)
u try to be romantic and they think you are a flirt and out to get them, (and there go your chances), and if u try to be plain and practical, u r too unromantic... so there go your chances...

)

by **popesmokesdope** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:31 pm

*yawns and then scrathches his head* hobson\'s choice===no choice whatsoever...u are doomed....catch 22===caught between two evils (u have a choice here)...and I dont want any smarty points...can I trade it for a candy??? puh-lease??

by **Aishwarya** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:10 pm

HMM Hobson\'s choice is some sort of a \'take it or leave it\'.
Tobias (Thomas) Hobson, a contemporary of Shakespeare, made his living by putting horses for hire. He believed in working his horses in strict rotation, and his policy in dealing with clients was accordingly very simple. If they wanted a horse, they would have to take the horse whose turn it was to go, usually the one nearest to the stable door - regardless of any preference they might have for some other horse in stable.
 
Hobson\'s clients must\'ve protested time and again, but to no avail. They had the \'Hobsons\' choice\' - to take the horse he offered or none at all.

by **Aishwarya** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:12 pm

That was a good one Srinu... i just wish the rest understood what Catch-22 really means! PSD, you completely contradicted my statement!

by **Srinu** » Fri Nov 01, 2002 6:03 am

catch-22 is about contradicting terms/conditions. Like I mentioned below abt guys problems with gals. Think Hobson’s choice is having no choice at all while seemingly having a choice. for ex. Pakistan had a Hobson’s choice whether to join the coalition against terrorism

by **vivek of themavericks** » Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:57 am

Ok, try DOTH or Compos along with Donnatal or Enuraid. The first two would put you to sleep and the last two would make you pee. So you would feel sleepy while peeing and feel like peeing while you sleep. Now that\'s a great Catch-22.

by **Gulmohar Hyderabadi** » Fri Nov 01, 2002 3:44 pm

Hey guys, I don\'t quite agree with the above - Catch 22 does not involve choices or evils. It merely indicates a contradictory predicament involving two characteristics that preclude one another a priori: Lt. Yossarrian had to be crazy to go on flying the missions, the number of which were required for rotation kept increasing as he approached them, yet he could not be crazy either, because he wanted to quit doing it as he was afraid to die.
 From the book: 
There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one\'s safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn\'t, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn\'t have to; but if he didn\'t want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle. 
\"That\'s some catch, that Catch-22,\" he observed. 
\"It\'s the best there is,\" Doc Daneeka agreed.

by **popemsokesdope** » Fri Nov 01, 2002 7:53 pm

dear aishwarya... what u have stated above i think is a copy paste from \'some\' online dictionary which just gives you the surface meaning of it... hobson\'s choice i think can be interpreted many ways (if u are not deviating a lot). I still stick to the meaning that \'no-choice-whatsoever\'. and moreover u have quoted that \"take the nearest horse near the stable else leave\"... leaving here shud be noted that is NOT a choice. and as for a catch-22 situation, it necessarily doesn\'t mean evil as someone said so... it is just a phase where u are caught between 2 contradictory and non-complementing situations... i. e. \"heads I kill you... and tails U die\" is not a Catch-22 situation but a good contender for hobson\'s choice.

by **Aishwarya** » Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:52 pm

I am so glad to see that atleast one understood what i have been trying to say... thanks a lot GH! it is very encouraging... PSD(ix?), firstly i didn\'t copy anything from anywhere, and as a matter of fact we all get to know the meaning of all the words from a dictionary... so what if i quoted the dictionary?

by **Gulmohar Hyderabadi** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 6:32 pm

Yo junta, I am impressed with your cool sense of humor (kaash, I too had a little of it) I had a good hearty laugh :-)

you guys are great with sitcom sorta cracks :-)

. Aish, Keep going. Catch-22 is a wonderful cyclic-logic.One always gathers information from the available resources and that\'s perfectly justified.

by **popesmokesdope** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 8:13 pm

hey chill!! we all plagiarists....we are all plagiarists of our breath! no offence. \\ /

by **Aishwarya** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 11:07 pm

Hey PSD, let me tell you something that you dont know - one cannot find the meanings of idioms and phrases in a dictionary... try something else pal!!!

by **Aishwarya** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 11:52 am

you people actually bought that \"stable and horse\" story huh!!!

by **popesmokesdope** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 9:00 pm

that sable and horse story is well damn tr00 and I saw that in an online dictionary!!!!

by **Aishwarya** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:13 am

Which dictionary are you talking about psd? hey i must charge them for quoting me!!!!!!!!!!!!

by **srenee** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 10:10 pm

why don\'t you sue them like Babi Lahri.

Who is online