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BDC Canada Reviews - Cheated by BDC Canada

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BDC Canada Reviews - Cheated by BDC Canada

by BDC Canada Reviews » Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:48 am

A review of BDC Canada (Business Development Centre Canada - Toronto, Ontario) which cheated me.

I paid for a Canada trademark registration from BDC in November of 2011, and got cheated.

I was sent a fee estimate saying these would be the expenses (I quote verbatim):

"For The Services Of Filing Trademark Application: $553.95
Mail Box Service: 284.02
Delivery: $25"

With taxes, ($79.69), it came to $942.66.

I live in India, and it is a lot of money.

10 months later, I got another email saying I'd have to pay another $281.37 for "renewal of my mailbox account".

I was stunned - that is Rs. 16,000 (Indian currency), a hell of a lot of money.

I went back to the site, to the fee estimate sent to me, everything, searching for any logical place where it was mentioned that this was an annual fee. There was none.

I wrote to BDC, and an Aaron Hornbrook there wrote what many would consider a contemptuous email to me.

His main point was just one. On the order form on their website (assuming it hasn't changed by the time you're reading it):

https://www.bdccanada.com/bdc_order/ind ... ckageId=54

it was written:

"In order to apply for a trademark in Canada, you must provide a valid address in Canada. If you do not have a valid address in Canada or if you wish to maintain your Privacy, you can use our Registered Address Service that includes mail receiving and forwarding.

[checkbox here] Registered Address for Trademark in Canada (Add $215.00)"

Apparently, if I had *checked* that checkbox, I'd have seen that this was an annual charge.

Now in the whole world, people know that the way to tell others to read for more information is offering a *hyperlink* - in this case, saying something like ("Annual - click for more details").

I did not think that checking that checkbox to get more information - I do not click on checkboxes in website assuming there will be more information there. I click on hyperlinks.

The point is, I did not even use that order form to order - I had just written to them for some clarifications, and they sent a fee estimate for my requirement.

BDC cleverly misled me in 3 ways:

1. Instead of the text:

"Registered Address for Trademark in Canada (Add $215.00)"

it could have put:

"Registered Address for Trademark in Canada (Add $215.00 - $180 recurs annually)" with "$180 recurs annually" being a hyperlink

2. It could have mentioned in the fee estimate sent to me by email that this is an annual recurring charge. It *should* have - that is the legal way. It did not.

3. It sent me the mailbox agreement, where it is mentioned in some convoluted way that this is a recurring fee (but even there the actual amounts are not mentioned), *40 days* after I paid the amount. If it had sent me the mailbox agreement along with the fee estimate - which is the ethical and legal thing to do, since agreements aren't sent *after* payments are made - I would have at least noticed something amiss, and enquired.

For me, the 3 points above are MOST IMPORTANT.

In my complaint to them, I brought out these 3 points.

Aaron Hornbrook did not address any of these 3 in his response. Instead, he hunted for data to justify what had already happened. So these were his fundamental stands:

1. I should have clicked on that checkbox for more details.

2. The mailbox agreement was available somewhere on their site, and I could have seen those details there. (I add: it does not appear anywhere in the process a normal user would follow to understand the price - it is as of now hidden somewhere in the footer along with many other links.)

Here is a line from his email, just so you understand what I mean by a "contemptuous" reply:

"Firstly, "Annual", or "Annum" is a synonym for "year". If you perhaps did not understand that the term of a 1-year rental was in fact 1 year, I do apologize."

If I knew there was a $281.37 annual fee, I might not even have gone in for BDC, since it changes the overall price completely (a trademark takes about 18 months on average).

You cannot send order forms and agreements *after* payments have been made - it ought to be before.

I have no option now but to pay them, since they can obviously cause problems for me since my trademark is in their hands, and it is a foreign country for me where I do not understand how things work.

From their contemptuous response, the refusal to address the 3 main issues I had, and the refusal to waive off this additional fee, I can only conclude that this happened wilfully.

The pages and processes at BDC canada might change after they discover that more and more people are reading reviews and complaining, which is good if fewer customers get cheated. But I have all screenshots and original .mht files as of the day I complained.

I got badly cheated by BDC Canada, and this review of Business Development Centre Canada is intended to let the world know and be cautious.
BDC Canada Reviews
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Re: BDC Canada Reviews - Cheated by BDC Canada

by kiran » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:36 pm

thanks for the info
kiran
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Re: BDC Canada Reviews - Cheated by BDC Canada

by DCreston » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:35 pm

I also recently sought the help of BDC to register my corporation about 3 months ago.

Before ordering anything from them, I spent some time trying to find feedback from other customers regarding their services from forums online, as I usually do before doing business with any online company. I was amazed to find almost nothing on the web. Considering the sheer size of the company, I was expecting a bit more in the way of results. BDC does have social media pages with active comments, but it appears that no one has provided any forum-based feedback about their experiences in detail, until this forum popped-up. And I have to say - wow. Totally not the same experience I had AT ALL.

I'm not sure if I was dealing with the same Aaron as you, but I basically called these guys with no knowledge of the business start-up process, and no idea what to do about taxes and the sort. My brother and I have been meaning to open a boutique PC repair shop for the better part of a year and were finally ready sign the lease on a rental location and start working. I have no formal accounting background, and I didn't really have the funds to commit to going to a lawyer or accountant to discuss the start-up process.. This guy was fantastic. The kind of customer service that you would want to have at your company, and certainly the kind that would encourage paying customers such as myself to come back and buy again.

Aaron walked me through my options, explained the benefits of each type of business structure and tax accounts in a very easy to understand way, but most importantly, he provided thorough direction. I called a couple of government offices to get information about the requirements of starting up a company in Ontario before I connected with BDC, and found that the agents weren't terribly helpful and didn't really listen, and were trying to rush me off the phone. I've never run my own company before and by nature I like to be very cautious and thorough about my undertaking of any venture. Obtaining advice from BDC provided me with confidence that my decision was a good one, and also gave me a sense of reassurance that I had a direct point of contact if I had questions in the future about my company. I've spoken with Aaron on 3 other occasions since we got set-up and we're currently in the works of getting my company marketed, and website optimized.

Overall, I would highly recommend their services. My ongoing relationship with BDC has been a positive one.
DCreston
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Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:20 pm

Re: BDC Canada Reviews - Cheated by BDC Canada

by BDC Canada Reviews » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:46 pm

@Creston: My experience is that aggrieved people write long posts, not happy customers. Given the length of your post and its tone, I am not sure if it is a genuine one, or one written by someone at/representing BDC.

Incidentally, I had more bad experiences after making this post.
BDC Canada Reviews
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Re: BDC Canada Reviews - Cheated by BDC Canada

by DCreston » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:59 pm

@ BDC Canada Reviews

I'm not sure how new you are to the world of forums, however, your assertion that the length of a forum post is somehow indicative of the legitimacy of the poster is incorrect, not to mention assumptive.

I have dedicated several hours of my free time to referring friends, family members and the general public to companies whose quality of customer service was above-par. Similarly, I have written several 1-2 page long positive reviews on companies such as Zipcar, WestJet and other businesses who have taken the time to address my problems and go above and beyond my expectations. As excellent customer service is such a scarcity, it's my way of saying thank you to these companies.

I can respect and relate to you sharing your experiences online. Bashing fellow posters because they have a different opinion, however, is somewhat less than respectable.
DCreston
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Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:20 pm

Re: BDC Canada Reviews

by Michael » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:27 am

Hello,

My name is Michael and I work for the Quality Control Department at the Business Development Centre. We have received a notice that you have made a post and I feel it is important that we make a formal reply.

Due to the Privacy Legislation it is difficult for us to comment on any specific details related to your order with us, but I would like to provide the following information.

1. Our order form clearly states that a Registered Address service is an annual service, so the fee would be a recurring fee.

2. While we serve clients all over the world, we are located in North America, and it is a common knowledge that Registered Address, Mail Box and P.O. Box services are recurring services with payments due monthly, quarterly or annually.

3. We always provide answers to any question we receive, but we are not able to guess what information you as the client may need, unless you ask.

4. There is a big difference between saying that you have experienced a miscommunication and stating that you were “cheated”.

5. Your order was processed in accordance with the best business practices and we have provided you with every possible support that was required.

6. Please note that in the Trademark registration process you may encounter further financial obligations that no one can predict at the time of the order or even today. The point is that formal government filings are unpredictable, and our job is to provide you with the required support in order to achieve your goal.

In any case, we pride ourselves on providing the best possible customer service. Since your order is still active, you are welcome to contact us and we can find a mutually appropriate solution. You can reach us at csr@bdc-canada.com

We trust that we can find an appropriate solution to your concern.

Regards,

Michael
Michael
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Re: Status Update

by Michael » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:26 am

Hello,

I would like to post an update.

I have personally communicated with the client for over a month now, but despite offering many concessions as a gesture of goodwill, it looks like we have reached a dead end. Both parties are not able to agree on one of the terms and that becomes a deal breaker.

While I am still hoping to find a solution for both parties, cooperation is necessary for successful resolution.

Thanks,
Michael
Michael
Registered User
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:22 am

Re: BDC Canada Reviews - Cheated by BDC Canada

by BDC Canada Reviews » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:39 pm

In response to Michael's post above, here's what actually happened.

In summary, BDC Canada handled the issue above in an extraordinarily unethical way.

I mean that in an objective sense, bereft of emotion or drama. Indeed, after starting this thread, I encountered a side of Business Development Centre Canada that was far worse that what I encountered before I posted this review of BDC Canada.

Here's what happened (this is a quick summary of elaborate and extensive correspondence that happened over 3-4 months):

1. As can be seen from his post above on Jan 5 2013, Michael invited me to a - clearly - optional discussion.

During the discussions, BDC Canada offered me a refund of the registered address fee (CAD 281.37) that I had to pay for the 2nd year, and said I could continue to use the registered address service for the second year.

In return, Michael said that I'd need to remove this thread and promise not to post anything else about BDC Canada in future.

I agreed to remove this thread, but said that I would not be able to promise not to post anything else in future, since there might be some other issues cropping up in future (this was already the second with BDC Canada).

Michael said that that was not possible. Then I suggested to him that we call off the negotiation and just let things be as they were.

Michael then said that even that was not possible - I should either agree to the terms he was suggesting, or move my business elsewhere (since they would discontinue services to me that I had already paid for). A proposition which he himself said would cost me upwards of CAD $1500.

This was something new. It meant that I was conned into entering a discussion that was not optional to start with, unlike what he posted in this thread above. The negotiations were happening with a gun pointed at my head.

2. I told Michael then that BDC Canada could go ahead and suspend services to me. I did not want to be blackmailed.

Micheal then came up with something new again - he gave some convoluted argument that he had made a mistake with his facts, and that there were in fact no services due to me at all!

I quote from Michael's email: "There are no outstanding services that we have to perform and no outstanding obligations whatsoever. Our work ended once the application was filed."

3. When I argued about my having paid CAD $281.37 for a registered address service valid till near the end of 2013, he suddenly changed tack and came up again with something new all over again.

This time he said that he had proof that I filled a form where it was clearly mentioned that the registered address service was valid only for a year, and so my whole stance was invalid.

I asked him to show me the proof, and when he did, I gave incontrovertible, analytical, videotaped evidence that I could not have filled that form.

The enormity of this needs to be understood. By now, BDC Canada was cooking up blatant falsehoods to show me as wrong.

4. After that, Michael never wrote back, despite multiple reminders from me over 2-3 weeks - clearly, BDC Canada had nothing to dispute anymore, and had gotten increasingly and deeply entangled in its own falsehoods. Anything they wrote any more would make things even worse for them, and the management had decided that they'd better stop, for their own good.

After 3 reminders from me, someone else from BDC Canada (Marvin) wrote to me, bravely trying to stick to the completely unjustifiable stand they'd taken without any explanation whatsoever. In 2 very short emails sent in quick succession, he first said that my registered address (and mailbox) service would be intact, and then again that they would be discontinued.

I had to again follow up 2-3 times for specifics on when and how the discontinuation would happen, before BDC Canada again chose to respond 2-3 weeks later saying they had decided to keep the service intact.

Even in this, however, they cheated. My registered address and mailbox service should have been valid till Dec 20, 2013, by clear documentary evidence I had and that I repeatedly presented to them, but they unilaterally said it would expire 40 days earlier, on Nov 9, without addressing my evidence at all.

What do you do with people like that? Indeed, it is interesting just how difficult it is to get someone at BDC Canada to address a specific point or question clearly pointing to injustice by them, unless you go on and on trying to make them answer it. And then, they'll still go off on a tangent.

It is quite important to note that I must have spent about several dozen hours in all that discussion over email over the 3-4 months (Jan-Apr 2013). There is a serious cost to that time. The whole reason I had hired Business Development Centre Canada was to save time, and I ended up spending a huge number of hours in the 3 times I got into problems with them. They take unsubstantiated stands, cook up complete falsehoods, do not address specific points repeatedly, and make you type long emails which is necessary so as not to look like you are accepting what they are saying.

BDC Canada cheated me, wasted my time to an extraordinary extent, and made wrong accusations against me. The only reason I am not able to take any action against them is that I am not based in Canada.

By the way, they have a deposit of $60 of mine with them, that they have not yet explained to me about, weeks after their service to me expired. I'll post here how that turned out.
BDC Canada Reviews
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