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Salahuddin wrote:Female Pathaka, when you criticize a society as being 'repressed' etc, you should also give an example of a society thats not 'repressed'.
Salahuddin wrote:The burqa is a part of a system put in place to protect women. Its a religiuos and cultural thing, and majority of the muslim women wear it with pride. It is not a sign of 'suppression'.
Also when you have not experienced living in Saudi Arabia as a woman, how can you generalize that women are suppressed.
....
Anyways, lets not generalize anything about any society based on heresy. Look at the facts. There are good things and bad things about every society.
salahuddin wrote:Hotshorts behn,.....
salahuddin wrote:about the authenticity of whether the 'women got burnt in the fire because they were not allowed to go out because they were not wearing hijab' is very doubtful. The links you have provided are from bbc. Bbc as a corporation has long since sold it conscience to the devil.
salahuddin wrote: Islam itself is a very moderate religion. If there are strict rules, there are also exceptions........That doesnt make the law itself bad. The misapplication of religion does not make the religion itself bad.
salahuddin wrote: Saudi decided that they are an islamic country and hence adopted the laws of islam. And the law of islam professes that women should wear hijab in public.
salahuddin wrote:.....If France's constitution states that its a secular country, then why the hypocrisy of banning the hijab....muslim French citizens are raising their voice against what they deem is an injustice.
The answer is very simple. When a country is created, the first thing that is put into place is the constitution. Saudi decided that they are an islamic country and hence adopted the laws of islam. And the law of islam professes that women should wear hijab in public. They just come out and say, this is the law of the land, if its likable to u, we welcome you. Simple as that.
I am sorry to say that even in India secularism is applied selectively by politicians. All this due to some skewed policies of Nehru and his ilk.
JustaLittleUnwell wrote:I am puzzled as to why you consider it to be extreme. An educational institution funded by a secular government would like its wards to grow up without divisive influences and hence has apparently forbidden display of visible signs of religion - so that young minds develop a sense of equality. I dont think there is suppression, as they are not forbidden from practising their religion, just from displaying it.
JustaLittleUnwell wrote:Can you throw more light? If you are refering to vote-bank politics practised previously by Congress (e.g. Shah Bano episode) and now by Sangh Parivar (Ayodhya / Gujarat etc), it is definitely not secularism.
But does wearing religious symbols like veil encourage divisive feelings?
what is happening in india is that since independence, government is coddling all religions and systematically denigrating Hinduism and its customs or symbols.
JustaLittleUnwell wrote:a child growing in a religion-neutral environment is more likely to appreciate the worth of other individuals / religionists......This is the reaction a religious symbol can invoke among grown ups, who are expected to be mature enough to know the right from wrong. What can you expect from kids who are still learning their values?
JustaLittleUnwell wrote:I am somehow not with you because I have not come across any hindu custom or symbol being systematically denigrated by any government. Some primitive customs like animal sacrifice had to go, and I have no issues if the law enforcement was harsh on such practises.
Excuse me, I am a "bhai" not a "behn"
For your information, unlike the CNN, BBC is anti america and pro-arab, even in the palestine situation. It did not even support the American-British war in Iraq.
In a sense of fair play if BBC critisizes arabs for anything, it does not mean that it "sold its conscience to the devil". I am sorry, but you sound like a typical paranoid muslim, thinking anybody who points out any fault in him is evil.
Even countries like Dubai, Tunisia, Syria, Libya, Egypt, Oman, Morocco and many Central Asian countries (the '**stans') are self-professed Islamic countries, but they do not force non-muslim ladies to move about in hijab.
[/quote]French muslims are being very vocal in their protest. Please note that this is possible only in a democracy. Lets see anybody, arab or non-arab, publicly protest ANY law in Saudi Arabia.....! I am sure this stifling of voices is not sanctioned by Quran!
Seems, saudi arabia doesnt allow other nationals or people of other faith to practice their religion in saudi, even in private.
Amidst all the propaganda he popped a good question that made me think. When the western countries got their constituition they were predominatntly christian, infact they were 99.9% christian, yet they allowed others to practice their religion without subduing them or forcing them to convert (Lets not talk about missionary work here for a moment).
He says, that when we (as in west) allow them (muslims) to follow and spread their religion freely, we expect them to allow us to atleast practice (if not allowed to spread) our religion in their land.
I think he has got a good point. Why should I open my doors to you knowing fully well that your doors are closed for me? I am not talking about Islam, but a country's policy which you are defending.
So if tomorrow, the Americans decide that, "ah well, saudis are not allowing our soldiers in riyadh to practice christianity, so we will ban all saudis coming to America from practicing islam as long as they are in America!". Would that be acceptable? The saudis can dictate terms only in Saudi and not in US.
quote]On the same lines, Since constituition can be changed, Imagine if a new french government comes to power in paris today and they decide that their forefathers were wrong in declaring france as a secular country where it should have been christian since majority is christian and they ammend the constituition to make it christian and outlaw practice of other religions and it gets passed as democracy = majority, would it be right?[/
female patakha wrote: it might be great to say that no body goes empty handed from saudi arabia, but it is to be brought to atention, that only the men live a life. the females are burkha shrouded with as much freedom as a caged lab-rat. guys please grow up and stop raving about only the monetary aspects of a kingdom where human souls and freedom are absolutely non existant.
yes...everyone apart from Whites and Arabs who work in Saudi Arabia, do so only for money. why only non-muslims, even muslims from India, Pakistan etc are treated like dirt n cheapen themselves there.purranasheshardotcom wrote:Alll wat i wan to say is ... ppl who dont like dis place they can leave why the hell they stay in such a country where they dont have any respect ........ jst for money sake ?? if so ... then they are cheap
[/b][/url]Tired of Male Domination, 5 Women Change Sex
Reuters
RIYADH, 4 April 2006 — Tired of playing second fiddle to men in Saudi Arabia, five women decided if you can’t beat them, join them. Al-Watan daily newspaper said the five women underwent sex change surgery abroad over the past 12 months after they developed a “psychological complex” due to male domination. Women in Saudi Arabia are not allowed to drive or even go to public places unaccompanied by a male relative. The newspaper quoted a senior scholar as saying the authorities have to fill what he described as a legal vacuum by issuing laws against sex change operations. An Interior Ministry official told Al-Watan such cases are examined by religious authorities, and sometimes by psychologists, but those who undergo sex change are never arrested.
Pak teen raped, jailed in Saudi Arabia
[ Monday, April 24, 2006 10:14:45 amAGENCIES ]
KARACHI: Isma Mahmood’s world has come crumbling down, her hopes dashed to the ground. And all for no specific fault of her own.
Mahmood, 16, was deported to Pakistan last month after having served six months in shackles and handcuffs in a prison in Saudi Arabia. Her crime—being raped by a Saudi man.
“It’s difficult for me to talk about what happened to me, from rape to prison and from prison to deportation,’’ Isma said, in the office of a rescue trust in Karachi where she sat with her sister Muna, 18, who was also deported.
Isma’s parents, originally from the central Pakistani city of Multan, were trafficked to Saudi Arabia around 20 years ago. “Though both of us were born there, we are Pakistanis,’’ Isma said.
Human rights groups say hundreds of people, particularly young women, are still trafficked from South Asia every year, with many going on to face a life blighted by physical and often sexual abuse.
In Isma’s case, being born in Saudi Arabia was no help when she was raped last year in the holy city of Medina. “I was the victim, I was raped and molested but I was named as the accused, and the man who committed the crime was not touched,’’ she said, hiding her face with both hands in shame.
“He first kidnapped me, dragged me into his car,’’ Isma said. “At first he asked me to sleep with him and offered good money. When I refused and tried to resist, he warned me of dire consequences and raped me in the car.’’
The unnamed man warned her she would be imprisoned if she went to police , and said that the Saudi sponsor who brought her parents to the country through a Pakistani agent would have them all expelled.
“I am very powerful and could declare you a bad girl. Your father’s sponsor is my friend and he will not support you,’’ she quoted the man as telling her. The sponsor, too, threatened Isma and Muna, warning they would be punished unless they kept silent, she said, asking that the sponsor’s name not be revealed to spare her family any additional grief.
“I and my sister thought otherwise and we went to the police as we expected justice. But after a few hours of filing the report the police allegedly changed it,’’ Isma said. Under pressure from the Saudi sponsor, Isma’s parents asked her to withdraw her allegations.
“I never wanted my parents to get into trouble as they were at the mercy of the sponsor and he lived in our neighbourhood. So I did not speak much but police still put me behind bars,’’ she said.
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