Moderators: hitesh, The Moderator Team
Habitual Perfectionist wrote:This is another thing I carry strong views on. I feel that people who have left India and have taken up citizenships of other countries should not be given these special priveleges like NRI, PIO etc across the board. This can be done for people who are contributing to the country in fields like Education, Industry, Social reforms etc.
I've seen so many people who have scant regard for the country and they are generally the first ones to jump at such opportunities cuz. this provides them with a lot of sops that allow them to launder money to their relatives etc. or help them in other ways.
DQ wrote:Habitual Perfectionist wrote:This is another thing I carry strong views on. I feel that people who have left India and have taken up citizenships of other countries should not be given these special priveleges like NRI, PIO etc across the board. This can be done for people who are contributing to the country in fields like Education, Industry, Social reforms etc.
I've seen so many people who have scant regard for the country and they are generally the first ones to jump at such opportunities cuz. this provides them with a lot of sops that allow them to launder money to their relatives etc. or help them in other ways.
Huh, the greatest contributors to the Indian economy have been the Diaspora.
Those people who left their loved ones to direct that much needed releif to India in terms of Foriegn Exchange. The Dollars and Rials that flowed in not only assisted India in terms of much needed wealth but also raised the socio economic condition of communities.
It is the same Diaspora that has contributed in diversion of back end processing towards India. It was high time India came up with dual citizenship that allows these to continue serving the country.
The dual citizenship will initiate a transfer of knowledge of its talented diaspora in addressing some basic issues like disaster mitigation, healthcare, drinking water, sanitation, and administrative, judicial and political reforms the most in need.
Habitual Perfectionist wrote:DQ wrote:Habitual Perfectionist wrote:This is another thing I carry strong views on. I feel that people who have left India and have taken up citizenships of other countries should not be given these special priveleges like NRI, PIO etc across the board. This can be done for people who are contributing to the country in fields like Education, Industry, Social reforms etc.
I've seen so many people who have scant regard for the country and they are generally the first ones to jump at such opportunities cuz. this provides them with a lot of sops that allow them to launder money to their relatives etc. or help them in other ways.
Huh, the greatest contributors to the Indian economy have been the Diaspora.
Those people who left their loved ones to direct that much needed releif to India in terms of Foriegn Exchange. The Dollars and Rials that flowed in not only assisted India in terms of much needed wealth but also raised the socio economic condition of communities.
It is the same Diaspora that has contributed in diversion of back end processing towards India. It was high time India came up with dual citizenship that allows these to continue serving the country.
The dual citizenship will initiate a transfer of knowledge of its talented diaspora in addressing some basic issues like disaster mitigation, healthcare, drinking water, sanitation, and administrative, judicial and political reforms the most in need.
I request you to read my post again.
I said that these priveleges should be provided to people on a selective basis - only to those who are contributing to the betterment of the country. No way should people who diss India be given these priveleges.
Example : Sucker Vidia Naipaul. He doesn't miss a single opportunity to talk ill about his land of origin. Neither has he contributed in any way to the betterment of the country. He has even insulted some of our constitutional institutions. Why should he be granted special status like PIO, dual citizenship etc.?
Just Another Human wrote:That's right!
How do we get selective ???? DQ - u r completely rite when u said there are millions of people within our own India who don't even have minimum respect for our nation or for that matter, anything else. There is not even a single way how we can identify them.
The reason why we are talking abt Naipaul today is just because he is in the limelight and he went on air giving his opinions. But what about others ?
As far as I think, it's perfectly alrite to give 'Dual Citizenship' to PIO's but just that we need to make our laws strict rather than being lineant towards PIO's/NRI's considering the so-called 'foreign exchange' they are gonna bring or invest in our country.
It's better to be a underdeveloped country with minimum speculation rather than being a developed country with too many headaches. ;-k
DQ wrote:Just Another Human wrote:That's right!
How do we get selective ???? DQ - u r completely rite when u said there are millions of people within our own India who don't even have minimum respect for our nation or for that matter, anything else. There is not even a single way how we can identify them.
The reason why we are talking abt Naipaul today is just because he is in the limelight and he went on air giving his opinions. But what about others ?
As far as I think, it's perfectly alrite to give 'Dual Citizenship' to PIO's but just that we need to make our laws strict rather than being lineant towards PIO's/NRI's considering the so-called 'foreign exchange' they are gonna bring or invest in our country.
It's better to be a underdeveloped country with minimum speculation rather than being a developed country with too many headaches. ;-k
All accepted except the headache part.
I think our progress and they way we are opening to the world is in lieu with the times.
As times change India has to change, the headaches that follow will get ground in the basic fabric of the nation. The only thing of concern in India is fanatism if this can be eradicated everything else like corruption etc can be controlled.
Just Another Human wrote:DQ wrote:Just Another Human wrote:That's right!
How do we get selective ???? DQ - u r completely rite when u said there are millions of people within our own India who don't even have minimum respect for our nation or for that matter, anything else. There is not even a single way how we can identify them.
The reason why we are talking abt Naipaul today is just because he is in the limelight and he went on air giving his opinions. But what about others ?
As far as I think, it's perfectly alrite to give 'Dual Citizenship' to PIO's but just that we need to make our laws strict rather than being lineant towards PIO's/NRI's considering the so-called 'foreign exchange' they are gonna bring or invest in our country.
It's better to be a underdeveloped country with minimum speculation rather than being a developed country with too many headaches. ;-k
All accepted except the headache part.
I think our progress and they way we are opening to the world is in lieu with the times.
As times change India has to change, the headaches that follow will get ground in the basic fabric of the nation. The only thing of concern in India is fanatism if this can be eradicated everything else like corruption etc can be controlled.
By headaches, what I meant was this! Most of the criminals get support from the people outside our country - say People who are already settled in Foreign countries. All of us know that if somebody is involved in a scandal in India, then he would just fly off to a foreign country and goes underground. Would he be able to do that if he doesn't get any support from people already staying there - this is where the rules have to be strict. That's all I said.
Many examples - Abu Salem, Dawood Ibrahim, Krishi Bank chairman (some Rao), Lakki Reddy Bal Reddy (The most filthiest Pig whom even pigs won't acknowledge as their sibling) - If anyone of u don't know abt this guy, he used to exploit poor kids sexually after taking them to the US in lure of money, Lakku Bhai Pathak - and a lot many.
My knowledge is limited on a lot of things DQ - (even though I am trying to expand it slowly) - as of now, this is what I think - Would be great if you can provide other insights.
Habitual Perfectionist wrote:My point is again being misunderstood. I gave Naipaul as an example as everyone knows about him. There are so many others. My own aunt for example. Migrated to Canada in 84. Has been here thrice since then. And forget about the community or the country, she doesn't even have respect for her own family members. Considers herself superior as she earns more. What about such people?
They've taken a decision to leave the country and forget about it. When dual citizenship laws were not in place, they chose to forsake Indian citizenship and take up citizenship of the foreign country.
How can we be selective? Aren't we selective in everything we do? Are passports issued to everyone who applies for them? Does everyone who appears for an exam pass? Don't act so naive ppl. Its as simple as...
A person applies for dual citizenship.
He/She appears for an interview.
Based on why he/she wants the dual citizenship, he/she is granted/refused it.
In what way does that ridicule our country?
DQ wrote:If there are a few criminals and anti socials getting away with this its lesser price to pay then the benefits that follow.
DQ wrote:Your Aunties lack of respect (for those around her, the community, family) is grounds enough for her not to get dual citizen status (is this what you mean ?)
DQ wrote:Is it what you consider right (your social norms) and should be respected and she does not.
DQ wrote:What they find.
At the Airport a Pan chewing custom officer who will not let them pass through until his / her palms are greased.
A coolie who runs away with their lugage.
From that good morning sir / good evening madam culture (beleive me 99 % of people in other countries are pleasent to each other) to a teri maaaki bhenki scruf. And mind you they are still not out off the Airport.
To the bumpy roads the funds of which are being consumed by a pot bellied official.
To the complains of relatives and friends (for not bringing gifts or not sponsoring XYZ or not supporting XYZ financially).
Curfews for a communal fight (in secular India)
And when they try to share their experiences on how we can change our life to help each one of us.
- They riduculed and branded
non desi
loose cultured
forgotten their grass roots.
Un Patriotic
DQ wrote:If so I will demand that all those who shows disrespect to respectable Indians who have been honoured in History (for e.g tagore, bose, nehru). To be unpatriotic and call for repealing their existing citizenship.
Habitual Perfectionist wrote:DQ wrote:If there are a few criminals and anti socials getting away with this its lesser price to pay then the benefits that follow.
This is where we differ.
I feel that its not as less a price as you think it is.
DQ wrote:Your Aunties lack of respect (for those around her, the community, family) is grounds enough for her not to get dual citizen status (is this what you mean ?)
Habitual Perfectionist wrote:This again was another example. I'm trying to show you the various ways in which people are showing complete disrespect towards their roots. Do not take just one example to be my complete case.
DQ wrote:Is it what you consider right (your social norms) and should be respected and she does not.
Habitual Perfectionist wrote:No...its not what I consider right or wrong. Its the ethos of the country that's being disrespected. And I guess everyone will agree that it should not. I'll make this clearer as my post goes further.
DQ wrote:What they find.
At the Airport a Pan chewing custom officer who will not let them pass through until his / her palms are greased.
A coolie who runs away with their lugage.
From that good morning sir / good evening madam culture (beleive me 99 % of people in other countries are pleasent to each other) to a teri maaaki bhenki scruf. And mind you they are still not out off the Airport.
To the bumpy roads the funds of which are being consumed by a pot bellied official.
To the complains of relatives and friends (for not bringing gifts or not sponsoring XYZ or not supporting XYZ financially).
Curfews for a communal fight (in secular India)
And when they try to share their experiences on how we can change our life to help each one of us.
- They riduculed and branded
non desi
loose cultured
forgotten their grass roots.
Un Patriotic
Habitual Perfectionist wrote:Every country has its ills. But that doesn't give one the right to call a country good or bad. Indians can be bad, India cannot. These so-called diaspora come to India and crib every single minute about everything ill possible in India...and mind you...they would not have even gone through it personally - they've just heard it from a neighbour of theirs back in Blackpool, Houston, Sydney or Toronto. For them, India is an underdeveloped land of barbarians. How do the americans get all these false notions about India? Its only through these so-called "sons and daughters of the land" who spread their venom around.
These are the same ppl who ill-treat fellow Indians and suck up to the foreigners. Do you really think they have the country's interests at mind while applying for dual citizenship? Believe me, more than half of them would do it just to end up making a bundle of black money in both places.
DQ wrote:If so I will demand that all those who shows disrespect to respectable Indians who have been honoured in History (for e.g tagore, bose, nehru). To be unpatriotic and call for repealing their existing citizenship.
Habitual Perfectionist wrote:The difference here is that I'm expressing my dislike for a person. Heck..its a free country and I'm entitled to my opinion. Just because I hate someone who you...or for that matter even the father of the nation...thinks is great, doesn't mean that I'm not a patriot.
DQ wrote:It sure is Dude, For every Criminal that you speak about there around 300,000 odd people who have migrated or worked overseas to upift the Socio economic condition of the People around them.
Take the Example of Hyderabad, people who would have been living on Poverty or below poverty line. Struggling to make a living have moved to gulf and not only lifted their socio economic condition but have also assisted in educting those related to them.
Likewise the low middle income earners have migrated to US - Europe and changed not only their conditions but those around them. If the Govt of India would have restricted travel to rein in the criminals so many more lifes would have been effected.
DQ wrote:You still did not clarify in the example as to what you perceive as disrespect ?
DQ wrote:Is it what you consider right (your social norms) and should be respected and she does not.
Habitual Perfectionist wrote:No...its not what I consider right or wrong. Its the ethos of the country that's being disrespected. And I guess everyone will agree that it should not. I'll make this clearer as my post goes further.
DQ wrote:Do we consider this as your pres umptions or facts.
I have stated what the Diaspora go through in foreign land.
I racial taunt and you have noticed a thread come up and the comments on this very board. This Diaspora is living with that Day in and day out.
They cannot crib on Indians but yes do question the way of life.
The complete submission of the entire society to corruption / fanatism / ill hygiene....that is waht they question. It probably gives them a feeling of belonging. It probably hurts them when Media overseas portrays their brethern as third world living in appaling conditions.
They understand the root causes of this and wish those around them changed something.
DQ wrote:If so I will demand that all those who shows disrespect to respectable Indians who have been honoured in History (for e.g tagore, bose, nehru). To be unpatriotic and call for repealing their existing citizenship.
Habitual Perfectionist wrote:The difference here is that I'm expressing my dislike for a person. Heck..its a free country and I'm entitled to my opinion. Just because I hate someone who you...or for that matter even the father of the nation...thinks is great, doesn't mean that I'm not a patriot.
Reality. wrote:That was a good informative post but one thing so obvious about it is that its way off topic.
Kavita wrote:1. What are the benifits of granting dual citizenship (refered to as DC henceforth) ?
Kavita wrote:2. What are the disadvantages?
Kavita wrote:4. Yeah rememberd the next one. Why should DC be given? Should it be for the betterment of the nation/individual or both?
Kavita wrote:5. In continuation to the above, can anyone list the betterment-factors to be considered. Till now 2 points were made.
- inflow of foreign exchange
- extradition of criminals
Kavita wrote:Few questions to HP:
1. A person is willing to help the nation by heart (this being a goal of the person) and another just leads a good/ productive life (though not a goal but implicity does good enough 'good' to the nation.) Should these ppl be differentiated ?
Kavita wrote:ASAIK most of them fall into the second category. And this is the way we are. 'Humans'. A persons non-harmful behaviour or attitude cannot be the deciding foctor. I have noticed that, the amount of monetory benifits he does or how much sophisticated technology he can bring in, etc are the points being considered for development.
Kavita wrote:2. Can a person's intention to help the mother land be judged? Do u think the official sitting over ther judge them that way? Or will the person giving the information will the proper information?
Kavita wrote:3. What should be judged in the selection process, what good the person can do to the country or whether the person personally is good or not? (redundant question, huh)
Kavita wrote:Both of you have stated mind sets of parties living here and not living here. Could you post something on whether DC should be granted or not? (the question is not of a person, but about the idea itself) If we can coulclude this we can go ahead with the discussion of whom it can be granted to. Or may be you did the same but I could not make out the points. I really cannot talk much on this as I will be one sided. I lived all my life in India and know very few ppl who live abroad.
Kavita wrote:Ppl in foreign lands are pouring in money but ppl india are struggling to pour out the dirt. I feel both deeds are equally important for the betterment of the nation. I could only think of the theoritical part.
Habitual Perfectionist wrote:Kavita wrote:Ppl in foreign lands are pouring in money but ppl india are struggling to pour out the dirt. I feel both deeds are equally important for the betterment of the nation. I could only think of the theoritical part.
Where is the money that's pouring in? More than half the money that pours in is in the illegal form of havala transactions. So it doesn't end up any place other than a jeweler's cashbox or something similar. I wouldn't call that betterment of the nation in any way.
salamehyderabad wrote:Habitual Perfectionist wrote:Kavita wrote:Ppl in foreign lands are pouring in money but ppl india are struggling to pour out the dirt. I feel both deeds are equally important for the betterment of the nation. I could only think of the theoritical part.
Where is the money that's pouring in? More than half the money that pours in is in the illegal form of havala transactions. So it doesn't end up any place other than a jeweler's cashbox or something similar. I wouldn't call that betterment of the nation in any way.
Yea HP, u rite, the money thats being pumped goes into pplz own pocket n investments into real estates which make them lead rich lives. Its not invested in for a social cause( am talking about the majority) though the moniroty have contributed in the socio-econimoc development of the nation. Dont cuzz me HP am an NRI tooo...
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