Reservation for Muslims an injustice to Hindus

[Chnder]

i do not agree that a 5% reservation will drastically effect anyone. and i dont see how this can be implimented. the govt. should have worked out the feasibility before enacting it.

Oh Yeah? Are you one of the Congress cronies or one of the Mushlim job and education looter.



I am not going anywhere. I was born here and raised here and I am going to fight this injustice.



What about the kids who have been denied admission for no fault of theirs?



Reservations based on religion are wrong. Who is preventing these Mushlims from participating in government or gaining admission in colleges? There are many sections, communities which are under-represented are they going on streets demanding special rights?



This is a clear ploy to loot jobs and wield power. Which must be resisted.

[chander]

(Sorry for the repetition of the posts. There was a problem at my end.)



Some of the comments from Muslims is comical. All these years they have been impacted by reservations so now they need reservation for themselves. How ironical!!



You are saying 50% of the jobs are reserved for Hindus! Wrong! You don't have the facts right! In this 50% there are Muslims and Christians too.



The fact is this 50% is reserved for weaker sections of the society. Many of them happen to be Hindus. Now the arguments that you are putting are silly and they are indicative how degenerate the politics have become.



There are many sections in Hindu community which don't enjoy any reservations. Ultimately this issue is uniting all sections of Hindu community against the power politics of Muslims. Even lower castes in Muslims are upset about it.

[chander]

Last time when reservations for backward classes were increased ..I remember the huge outpour of emotions from 'hindus' ,they even resorted to self immolation all of it because few oppressed classes were having few more favours.
Now where has all the fervour gone..as soon as muslims are showered with reservations ..i dont see none of those.
Infact i think all the backward classes in hindus should support reservations for muslims. On any day muslims are far more better human beings than these blood sucking 'forward classes' in hindus.
I support reservations to Muslims wholeheartedly

Dear Dapper,

Do you sincerely believe that Muslims are oppressed classes? Most of the Hindus agree and accept the existing quotas (which are given to all weaker sections regardless of the religion). Supporting reservations to Muslims is wrong. Original reservations are given based on social backwardness and which were needed at that time. But you can't say the same for reservations for Muslims. Muslims are arm-twisting government and securing these benefits. There is no justification Muslim reservations. None! Nobody is responsible for their low representation except themselves. If you think that Muslims are friends of weaker sections you don't know the facts or history.



You wanted to know why Hindus are not protesting in large numbers as they did last time. I don't know why. But whom ever I have spoken with are angry about this are angry about it. There is a silent majority who are against this reservation. Cutting across caste and class lines. This is not just a BC issue, it is the issue for the whole Hindu community.



Reservations can not be hijacked for vote bank politics. They are meant to benefit. Not to gain populistic votes.

[KK]

Dear Friends,
I am posting this on the forum to express outrage and anger at the AP Government's decision to give quotas to Muslims in education and jobs.
I don't understand why Muslims should be given this special treatment? They are many poor people in Hindu community and who have no other benefits. This move reduces their chances to earn their livelyhood and education.
In India Muslims are not discriminated. They can get the jobs and education. If they apply and qualify. Then why this special treatment to Muslims at the cost of us? What is that these Muslims have done that we should give them special treatment?

>>So far you have a point.

They voted for Pakistan and they resisted integration of Hyderabad into India. Is this what makes one special and dear to Government.

>>Er, you are loosing it.

According to creamy layer concept a person with 2.5 lakhs annum and whose parents are not Class I officers can get reservation. Even I don't belong in this creamy layer. Why should I not get the reservation? They are many in my own community what about them?
Why should a average low middle class Hindu like me who is law abiding, patriotic and with limited means be discriminated like this? Why am I bei ng treated like a second class citizen?
These Muslims thieves and their cronies in Congress must be taught a lesson. I urge all the Hindus to unite and fight this injustice. You may be well off in an IT job. But there are millions in your own community who have very limited means. You have a responsibility to help them.

>>Sorry, but this does not make any sense to me.



India is a secular state and I assume we all accept it wholeheartedly. The reservation should only make sense if the distinction is made around rich & poor. But in a corrupted and rascist country like ours, reservation system strictly along that lines is not practical. I think it’s a legitimate estimation that the castes, that have been given special treatment so far, had majority (by a large margin) of them as poor. Perhaps, its the motivation behind existing reservation system. So, at an expense of a small percentage of people's misery and a bit of exploitation the system is working and is actually working. I am sorry about people who are being exploited, but what other reservation system could have been more practical under this corrupted system?



And if statistics say that majority(by a large margin) of any other caste/ religion are poor, I would vote in favour of extending the reservation system for them as well.

[chander]

Dear KK,

I think it’s a legitimate estimation that the castes, that have been given special treatment so far, had majority (by a large margin) of them as poor. Perhaps, its the motivation behind existing reservation system.

What you think is incorrect!! The backward castes were given reservation based on their historical backwardness. Not because they can get more votes or it is populist measure. There was a debate about this long time ago and it was decided to take social backwardness only as a parameter.

Social backwardness is the reason why Muslims are given reservation. Because representation is low in Government, they should be given reservation. This was the argument. This totally a bogus argument! Muslims are misusing their voting rights and corrupting the system even more.

I am sorry about people who are being exploited, but what other reservation system could have been more practical under this corrupted system?

The current system is corrupt according to you. So even more corruption is justtified! How ironical!

And if statistics say that majority(by a large margin) of any other caste/ religion are poor, I would vote in favour of extending the reservation system for them as well.

Don't be delusional thinking that current Muslim reservation is social justice. It is the very opposite. A power hungry community trying to use loop holes in our democracy to its advantage. This is an insult to all the weaker sections in the society. Please remember there are already Hindus, Muslims, Christians and others in the BCs. Then why a whole community be declared backward. Tomorrow they can make the Nawab of Hyderabad as backward too!!


More over I stand by my Pakistan comments. Muslim community created Pakistan. This is a fact. What's the gurantee that there won't be another repeat of it? The underlying problem is the "rabid Muslim separatism". They want separate laws, separate reservations, seprate this, seprate that... ultimately separate state.

(I heard the some of the other demans of this separatist community are that reservation is legislative assemblies and reservation para-military forces. Secularism! If this is secularism then I want Hindutva! I am not a member of RSS/VHP. But I will join them if this reservation injustice is not remedied. Not only me I will recruit all my community to join them. )

[kk]

Dear KK,

I think it’s a legitimate estimation that the castes, that have been given special treatment so far, had majority (by a large margin) of them as poor. Perhaps, its the motivation behind existing reservation system.

What you think is incorrect!! The backward castes were given reservation based on their historical backwardness. Not because they can get more votes or it is populist measure. There was a debate about this long time ago and it was decided to take social backwardness only as a parameter.

Social backwardness is the reason why Muslims are given reservation. Because representation is low in Government, they should be given reservation. This was the argument. This totally a bogus argument! Muslims are misusing their voting rights and corrupting the system even more.

I am sorry about people who are being exploited, but what other reservation system could have been more practical under this corrupted system?

The current system is corrupt according to you. So even more corruption is justtified! How ironical!

And if statistics say that majority(by a large margin) of any other caste/ religion are poor, I would vote in favour of extending the reservation system for them as well.

Don't be delusional thinking that current Muslim reservation is social justice. It is the very opposite. A power hungry community trying to use loop holes in our democracy to its advantage. This is an insult to all the weaker sections in the society. Please remember there are already Hindus, Muslims, Christians and others in the BCs. Then why a whole community be declared backward. Tomorrow they can make the Nawab of Hyderabad as backward too!!


More over I stand by my Pakistan comments. Muslim community created Pakistan. This is a fact. What's the gurantee that there won't be another repeat of it? The underlying problem is the "rabid Muslim separatism". They want separate laws, separate reservations, seprate this, seprate that... ultimately separate state.

(I heard the some of the other demans of this separatist community are that reservation is legislative assemblies and reservation para-military forces. Secularism! If this is secularism then I want Hindutva! I am not a member of RSS/VHP. But I will join them if this reservation injustice is not remedied. Not only me I will recruit all my community to join them. )

Ok May be I was wrong. But,

Let me get this correct - the point of debate should have been on eliminating reservations in all and not just for any particular religion , is that ryt? Your first message seem to project that you have problem with muslims reservation more than with reservation quota of SCs/STs/BCs.



If someone is exploiting the loop hopes of our system in creating undue advantage (such as reservation) of a caste/religion over another, then should you not first condemn the system before blame a sect of people?



Its not clear to me if you want to accept yourself as a part of secular state? If reservation for muslims did not come into picture, you will be a part of secular system and respect muslims as much as hindus? However, if reservation system is going to be extended to muslims, then you dont want to be part of secularism and you would instead REHASH OR DIG OUT muslims past history and believe that they gonna repeat it again in future?

[Sharjeel]

Social backwardness is the reason why Muslims are given reservation. Because representation is low in Government, they should be given reservation. This was the argument. This totally a bogus argument! Muslims are misusing their voting rights and corrupting the system even more.

Oye! We people are neither socially backward, nor misusing our rights!

[CtrlAltDel]

Social backwardness is the reason why Muslims are given reservation.

no...politics is the reason.

Muslims are misusing their voting rights and corrupting the system even more.

thats an unfair stmt. the politicians are the ones who are corrupting the system.

if anyone smilingly gives u sweets, wud u refuse?



i have no problem with muslim reservation if it helps the auto driver's son or daughter get into medical college. but i do have a problem if the kids of the rich ex-nawab living in banjara hills use it.

[SeH]

Chander clarify me one thing r u against Muslim reservations or reservation system itsself. If 5% is a problem then what about the rest of reservations for ST/SC/BC. Explain me why the 5% troubles you and not the rest. I'll post my experiences with reservations to SC/ST/BC's.

[spamtaneous]

Reservation system in any form is Bullshit.....



this system is being misused beyond control.....

[kk]

Social backwardness is the reason why Muslims are given reservation. Because representation is low in Government, they should be given reservation. This was the argument. This totally a bogus argument! Muslims are misusing their voting rights and corrupting the system even more.

Oye! We people are neither socially backward, nor misusing our rights!

hey thats not me whos has said that

[kk]

Social backwardness is the reason why Muslims are given reservation.

no...politics is the reason.

Muslims are misusing their voting rights and corrupting the system even more.

thats an unfair stmt. the politicians are the ones who are corrupting the system.
if anyone smilingly gives u sweets, wud u refuse?

i have no problem with muslim reservation if it helps the auto driver's son or daughter get into medical college. but i do have a problem if the kids of the rich ex-nawab living in banjara hills use it.

hey thats not me who has said that... its from chander

Chander wtf you have done man? why does a reply should quote my ID rather than urs

[chander]

Chander clarify me one thing r u against Muslim reservations or reservation system itsself. If 5% is a problem then what about the rest of reservations for ST/SC/BC. Explain me why the 5% troubles you and not the rest. I'll post my experiences with reservations to SC/ST/BC's.

I am against reservations based on any religion. Be it Muslims or any other religion.



Reservations to SC/STs is an exception and it should be considered as such. Now there are some deficiencies in that system which must be dealt separately.



But reservations to SC/STs doesn't justify reservations to Muslims. There is no justification for the whole community. None!



Remember there are already BCs in Muslims. Some castes in Msulims are alread given reservation! Then why reservation for the whole community?

[lonewolf]

hey thats not me who has said that... its from chander
Chander wtf you have done man? why does a reply should quote my ID rather than urs

Hahaha



Ok, I'm in favour of editing posts here.

[chander]

Chander wtf you have done man? why does a reply should quote my ID rather than urs

I didn't use your ID! Why should I use your ID?



There are some typo mistakes in my last post that I agree!

[lonewolf]

Chander wtf you have done man? why does a reply should quote my ID rather than urs

I didn't use your ID! Why should I use your ID?

There are some typo mistakes in my last post that I agree!

Didn't you use [quote="kk"] instead of [quote="chander"]?

[chander]

Ok May be I was wrong. But,
Let me get this correct - the point of debate should have been on eliminating reservations in all and not just for any particular religion , is that ryt? Your first message seem to project that you have problem with muslims reservation more than with reservation quota of SCs/STs/BCs.

Yes you are correct! Whether there should be reservations or how the current reservation system needs to be improved is a separate issue.



This in no way justifies reservation to Muslims. Which must be opposed if necessary with full force!



Because a group or a community has has an more impact on elections that group should not be given special benefits like this at the expense of other communities. This is like a majority community suppressing rights of minortities. Hence it should be opposed.



I do not belong to RSS/VHP. But if fighting against an injustice means that your RSS/VHP so be it.



This policy is fuelling anger in Hindus. If you think that people like will sit idly and let this happen then you are wrong!

[KK]

Chander, Dont get me wrong, I know its not a deliberate move from you.

Dude, why dont you answer the rest of my questions too, of my previous message?

[Mayavi Morpheus]

hey thats not me who has said that... its from chander
Chander wtf you have done man? why does a reply should quote my ID rather than urs

Relax! He forgot to close tags when quoting u.

[SeH]

Chander clarify me one thing r u against Muslim reservations or reservation system itsself. If 5% is a problem then what about the rest of reservations for ST/SC/BC. Explain me why the 5% troubles you and not the rest. I'll post my experiences with reservations to SC/ST/BC's.

I am against reservations based on any religion. Be it Muslims or any other religion.

Reservations to SC/STs is an exception and it should be considered as such. Now there are some deficiencies in that system which must be dealt separately.

But reservations to SC/STs doesn't justify reservations to Muslims. There is no justification for the whole community. None!

Remember there are already BCs in Muslims. Some castes in Msulims are alread given reservation! Then why reservation for the whole community?

Chander...arent you enjoying the 95% reservation. why does the 5% blow you up. I dont oppose reservation as such, but for misuse of reservation.

Lemme tell you an incident which happened during my college days. This one guy (hez a BC), got admission into EEE at one of the prestigious institutions (University College of Engineering,OU. Guess what, he happened to pick the seat under the open quota so that the seat in the quota would be still vacant and could get another person for the same subcaste. There was a similar incident but this time its was the girl who picked the seat in open to make way for another gurl. This is my personal experience. I've heard of many similar incidents from other folks too.

Do you think this is justified. If this is the case then how about the boys in the forward caste.

Education shall be provided to every person irrespective of caste, creed, religion et al. Opportunity should be provide to the person who has the capability & not all sick lame a$$holes. One more incident before I conclude. This guy was my junior and he is in CSc. He had a lab exam on C. He did not know how to use the key board and in the place of the open and close braces after the printf & scanf statements the put a C instead of ( and left the end of the statement with ;. What say you?

[chander]

OK, here you go.

If someone is exploiting the loop hopes of our system in creating undue advantage (such as reservation) of a caste/religion over another, then should you not first condemn the system before blame a sect of people?

You are confused about the existing reservation for weaker classes/castes with reservation for Muslims. These two are two seprate things.

Reservation for SC/STs and BCs was given based on their social backwardness. Reservations started for a good pupose. The same cannot be said for reservations to whole Muslim community! Let me remind you once more that certain lower castes in Mulims are already enjoying reservations. So there is no basis for reservation to whole community!

I accept the old system in principle, correcting some problems. But I cannot accept reservation based on religion. I oppose the community that is taking undue advantage. Whats wrong with that????

I can't be politically correct here. This is a clear ploy to loot jobs and higher positions to weild power. This by far exceeds the demands by other groups. I am not obliged to be polite or politically correct. Stop lectring me about niceties!!. If you have guts fight this injustice!

Its not clear to me if you want to accept yourself as a part of secular state?

If secularism means special rights to Muslims then NO!! If secularism means people get taxed and this tax money spent on special religious trips abroad then NO!! If secularism means you can loot one religious institution and pay for the other then NO!!

Clear?

If reservation for muslims did not come into picture, you will be a part of secular system and respect muslims as much as hindus?

Answer my questions above and get answers from your Muslim friends then I will decide.

(I have Muslims friends too. But I discuss these issues with them and they seem to agree with me. At least some of them don't want these kind of things to happen. So don't insult such sane Muslims by supporting such corrupt policies.)

However, if reservation system is going to be extended to muslims, then you dont want to be part of secularism and you would instead REHASH OR DIG OUT muslims past history and believe that they gonna repeat it again in future?

I hope they don't!! I say we should never forget history! Yes we should forgive them but never forget. I am not saying that we should go after them because they voted for partition. But we should be aware of history. History teaches us lessons. Any religion based division causes trouble. This is what history teaches me. Can you refute this?



Look, I have seen this tendency in many Indians. Many think that they should forget past history. I say this is foolishness and people who are doing this are deluding themselves. This doesn't mean that we should take revenge for the past mistakes. That is wrong. That's not what I am saying. But we should learn from history and never repeat the same mistakes.



Never forget, but equally important forgive them.



[/b]

[KK]

When we have 50% reservation why not 55%.
I would not allow even an extra 0.00...01% if it does not make any sense.

[KK]

OK, here you go.

I can't be politically correct here. This is a clear ploy to loot jobs and higher positions to weild power. This by far exceeds the demands by other groups. I am not obliged to be polite or politically correct. Stop lectring me about niceties!!. If you have guts fight this injustice!

I'm not lecturing you on anything.

Its not clear to me if you want to accept yourself as a part of secular state?

If secularism means special rights to Muslims then NO!! If secularism means people get taxed and this tax money spent on special religious trips abroad then NO!! If secularism means you can loot one religious institution and pay for the other then NO!!

Clear?

Not clear! Secularism has only one meaning. There are no IFs and BUTs in there.

If reservation for muslims did not come into picture, you will be a part of secular system and respect muslims as much as hindus?

Answer my questions above and get answers from your Muslim friends then I will decide.

(I have Muslims friends too. But I discuss these issues with them and they seem to agree with me. At least some of them don't want these kind of things to happen. So don't insult such sane Muslims by supporting such corrupt policies.)

However, if reservation system is going to be extended to muslims, then you dont want to be part of secularism and you would instead REHASH OR DIG OUT muslims past history and believe that they gonna repeat it again in future?

I hope they don't!! I say we should never forget history! Yes we should forgive them but never forget. I am not saying that we should go after them because they voted for partition. But we should be aware of history. History teaches us lessons. Any religion based division causes trouble. This is what history teaches me. Can you refute this?

Look, I have seen this tendency in many Indians. Many think that they should forget past history. I say this is foolishness and people who are doing this are deluding themselves. This doesn't mean that we should take revenge for the past mistakes. That is wrong. That's not what I am saying. But we should learn from history and never repeat the same mistakes.

Never forget, but equally important forgive them.

[/b]

How do you define lecturing, btw?

[lonewolf]

He had a lab exam on C. He did not know how to use the key board and in the place of the open and close braces after the printf & scanf statements the put a C instead of ( and left the end of the statement with ;. What say you?

You're probably talking about some of my former classmates in Springfield

[lonewolf]

The first step in the right direction is to throw out reservations in education and employment, or else INDIA will really stand for India Never Develops In Anything.



Before Independence, it may have been necessary to have reservations for a while for the upliftment of the downtrodden and suppressed, but now its just a big farce. I've sat with both idiots and brainy people in my classes and sometimes its really annoying to sit beside people who have not even passed the exam just because they have some damn reservation.



I am a Christian and I've always joined under the open category even though I studied in Christian/Catholic colleges. At college, I have had smart Christian classmates and dumb Christian classmates. The smart ones don't need any reservation at all.. and the dumb ones don't deserve to be studying along with those who got much higher marks just because they belong to the same community. Maybe the minority college can consider a long-term loan or scholarship to minority students who can't afford the fees since those colleges are built mainly without any financial support from the government. But admission into minority colleges because the student belongs to the same minority community is ridiculous.



Coming to the 5% reservation for Muslims, what is the government trying to prove or who is it trying to help? If the Muslim classmates from my batch (most of them are brainy ones) had to go back in a time machine to the current scenario, I think they would be disgusted. It looks more like a sop for votes from the Muslim community, and is indirectly slighting the community by offering the reservations!